Talk:Kibi province

From SamuraiWiki
Jump to navigationJump to search

Just like Izumo, Tsukushi, and Yamato, shouldn't this be "Kibi Kingdom" or just "Kibi"? There weren't provinces during middle or late Yayoi, or early Kofun Period. Nagaeyari 08:28, 19 July 2007 (PDT)

Ancient Japan is certainly not my strong point, but in the Kojien Dictionary Kibi is described as a "kuni." Kibi is a "古代国名" and Bizen came from a division of "吉備国". It seems that at least by the Taika Reform there were districts with reasonably set boundries subject to the imperial court, so they could be called provinces. Of course, if you define "province" in English as starting with the Koku-gun-ri system, then you cannot call them provinces. If so, what would you call Bizen, etc. at the time of the Taika Reform? Maybe that term would be better.

When I look at the J-wiki, I see that another problem is that Kibi, like Yamato and Izumo, was apparently some kind of independent country early and later came to be a "province", etc. However, at the present the SA Wiki has the latter two listed only as provinces. My suggestion would be to leave "Kibi province" for this article, which only discusses it in relation to the later provinces, and when there is an article that deals with the "country" of Kibi to use the same format as will have been used for Yamato and Izumo.

By the way, in modern Okayama one sees "Kibi" everywhere, even as much as "Bizen," I think, just as in Nagano "Shinshu" is everywhere. Perhaps the name is promoted because it covers the whole of Okayama Prefecture.--Bethetsu 22:33, 20 July 2007 (PDT)

You say, "in the Kojien Dictionary Kibi is described as a 'kuni.'" Just like Yamatai-koku, Izumo no Kuni, etc., right? Because Kibi was a definite chiefdom before being made into a (temporary) province, I guess your idea of two pages would work best. Unless the page was just called "Kibi" and started with being a chiefdom and evolved to being a province. For now, I suppose your idea is best. Nagaeyari 06:34, 21 July 2007 (PDT)