Talk:Shinsengumi

I wasn't sure if all of these books were references for this article, or just some of them - Shikisoku, do you think you can check the sources listed in the article, and remove any you didn't use for this specific article? Thanks --Kitsuno 09:39, 2 November 2006 (PST)

Basically I looked all the books except "Hijikata Toshizo"(deleted). And I used google and Amazon.co.jp for "Fiction" section. Is that OK? --Shikisoku 02:19, 4 November 2006 (PST)

Numbered list of rules

I've changed the format for the numbered list of rules. Does it look ok to you guys? Nagaeyari 22:16, 5 January 2007 (PST)

lunar calendar

Seven wrote:why don't we just say that he died on 5/30 (lunar calendar)?

Then we may have to rewrite whole S-A wiki. So let's wait Kistuno's decision.--Shikisoku 17:36, 12 January 2007 (PST)

In this case, I was referring to your(?) "Okita Soji died of Tuberculosis just a month after Kondo's death."

In 1868, April was the intercalary month. Kondou died on 05/17/1868 (04/25 lunar calendar) and Okita died on 07/19/1868 (05/30 lunar calendar).

If we called 5/30 a month after 4/25, what would we call intercalary 4/30? Seven 17:45, 12 January 2007 (PST)

I confirmed the month had Uruu. --Shikisoku 17:50, 12 January 2007 (PST)

All dates on this wiki are considered lunar dates unless otherwise noted, otherwise we'd have to go through and write (lunar month) thousands of times. No need. In some cases (for example, most of the Shinsengumi biographies) I have the lunar dates first, followed by the western dates. --Kitsuno 20:06, 12 January 2007 (PST)

Again, in this case, I was only referring to Okita Soji died of Tuberculosis just a month after Kondo's death. Nothing more! (I brought up the Gregorian dates to show there were 2 months between Kondo's death and Okita's death.) Seven 20:32, 12 January 2007 (PST)

Plans to edit sections 1-3 of the Shinsengumi page

All, on Saturday afternoon (Jan 28), while killing time at Narita before my flight, I plan to start editing sections 1-3 of the Shinsengumi page. My edits will not do anything to the excellent information that has been posted unless I find issue with anything. I intend to add a little stylistic flair to the prose. While my Obenjo persona clowns around quite a bit on the forum, I assure alll taht there will be a no-nonsense approach to my contributions as I view the SA Wiki as a serious academic under-taking that reflects on all of us.

I plan to have my first round of edits completed on Sunday (Jan 29) as I will basically have a free day. If I do add any new factual data or make any edits to the excellent factual details that have already been posted, a list of these changes will be summarized in the change box.

Please keep an eye on the Shinsengumi page and give me CONSTRUCTIVE feedback.

Thanks,

--Obenjo Kusanosuke 05:54, 24 January 2007 (PST)

I plan on reformatting the "captains" section (the list), so leave that for now. And make sure to add your source if you add any new info (into the "references" section). Also, feel free to join the Shinsengumi Task Force --Kitsuno 10:03, 24 January 2007 (PST)

Added Roshigumi Intro

I wrote an intro that explains the rationale behind the formation of the Roshigumi. Please let me know what you think.--Obenjo Kusanosuke 10:23, 31 January 2007 (PST)

Like I mentioned in the PM, I think it would serve better as the main article for the actual Roshigumi entry, and just shorten it up as as a basic intro for the shinsengumi article. Good stuff! --Kitsuno 10:44, 31 January 2007 (PST)

Thank you Mr Obenjo! If my article doesn't match with your article, you can modify it.--Shikisoku 03:57, 1 February 2007 (PST)

Formal name

This issue is not only Shinsengumi category. Seven just added full name on Serizawa Kamo. I would like to say it's formal name.(If any better translation please post here) The name as a court noble.(朝臣としての正式な名のり)

• From Serizawa Kamo"(His full name was Serizawa Kamo Taira no Mitsumoto.) "
• From J-wiki:「芹沢氏は常陸国芹沢村(現茨城県行方市)の芹沢城主の流れを汲む上席郷士であり、平姓で、平氏の中の板東平氏の一族で、常陸平氏の大掾氏一族の平清幹、平成幹の後裔。諱は光幹であり、芹沢鴨の朝臣としての正式な名のりは「平光幹（たいら・の・みつもと）」。」

The formal names are usually "Taira no something" "Fujiwara no something" "Minamoto no something". For example, Oda Nobunaga's formal name was Taira no Nobunaga. Tokugawa Ieyasu was Fujiwara no Ieyasu but he changed to Minamoto no Ieyasu later. But as we know, the names were rarely used on historical records and history books. So I have avoided to add the names. If we decide to add the names, small change may be needed to The official biography format.

• Born:
• Died:
• Titles:
• Childhood Name: Kipposhi
• Formal Name
• Japanese:

I know that the formal names are usually "Taira no something", "Fujiwara no something", "Minamoto no something"...etc. Serizawa Kamo's formal name was Taira no Mitsumoto and his full name was Serizawa Kamo Taira no Mitsumoto. Since some people get confused and mistake Taira no Mitsumoto for his former name or his alias, I've added his full name. Seven 20:12, 1 February 2007 (PST)

If the "Formal name" is listed as such (and it was uncommon to call someone Serizawa Kamo Taira no Mitsumoto") than it probably should go in the data section on the top. Japanese naming conventions are just plain outright confusing with childhood names, adult names, buddhist names, this name, that name, so I don't think there is any reason to treat the formal name any differently (i.e. put it in a "formal name" section in the top data section.) We've been using the "other names" as a catch all, but eventually I want to seperate out the different types of other names and list them individually on the data section, so this is a good way to start that. Basically, like the dates and uruu month issue, we'll just need an article and/or a link to explain it. Keeping everything standard and having links to explanations are better than trying to explain something in every article. So I think we should treat it the way we do the uruu months, just put them in as "usual", and when we get an article/description for the concept of "formal names", I'll link "formal name" to the applicable article. Seems the best way to handle it to me. --Kitsuno 20:28, 1 February 2007 (PST)

We may need a page for "Names" to explain all those names. Anyway, I am going to post this to S-A forum to let everybody know.--Shikisoku 21:46, 1 February 2007 (PST)

We do need a page - I think Bethetsu is working one up - she's the expert on the various names. --Kitsuno 21:52, 1 February 2007 (PST)

It was uncommon to call someone by his full name. Though it was fairly common to write someone's full name in some formal documents. Seven 22:32, 1 February 2007 (PST)

The whole "formal name" thing is sort of new to me, and it looks like shikisoku put it up on the forum for discussion - we'll get a concensus eventually. --Kitsuno 23:01, 1 February 2007 (PST)

Names?

Just a friendly suggestion; I started to read this article today and came across this part: "In March, They named Mibu Roshigumi. The Mibu Roshigumi was hired by Aizu han the Military Commissioner of Kyoto In August, they were dispatched for the Political change on August 18. Lord Matsudaira Katamori evaluated their job and gave them new name Shinsengumi." The first sentence is of unclear meaning. Also, this passage tells that the name of the group was changed, but it doesn't say why or even what either of the names mean. While this would be easy to discover using an online kanji dictionary, I think these things would be very helpful and convenient to most people. Thanks. Azuki Arai 10:03, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

This article is still mostly Shikisoku's draft that needs to be edited. It does say right in what you included that "Lord Matsudaira Katamori evaluated their job and gave them new name Shinsengumi." - so the name was changed to Shinsengumi from "Mibu Roshigumi", the first sentence meant that they "(were) named Mibu Roshigumi". I'll try to edit this today if I get a chance. --Kitsuno 15:41, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Right, it does say that but what I was trying to say is that it doesn't say what these two names mean and why it was thought that Shinsengumi was a better name than Mibu Roshigumi. This could only take a sentence or two to clear up, and I think it would improve the article's clarity. I realize that this and many of the articles here are still in draft stages, and I wasn't trying to complain or point out error, only to add a friendly suggestion. Thanks. Azuki Arai 14:40, 17 March 2007 (PDT)

Ah - I didn't think you were complaining, but I didn't understand what you meant, apparently. Yeah, something saying how "Mibu" was where they were located and "roushi" is equivalent to "ronin", etc. Gotcha. It will probably be a while, but that's what this page is for. --Kitsuno 18:57, 17 March 2007 (PDT)

• "Mibu Roshigumi" is a proper noun. If the question is grammar matter, I am not appropriate person to answer.--Shikisoku 01:16, 18 March 2007 (PDT)

"notes" section

Are there footnotes for this article or not? There is a <references/> tag in that section, but no notes. --Kitsuno 23:55, 23 July 2007 (PDT)