SamuraiWiki talk:Bujutsu Task Force

• I have finished adding sources on this category from my book.If anybody has sources for the rest, please add. Thanks.--Shikisoku 06:10, 20 November 2006 (PST)

I'm pretty useless as far as sources and info go, but I'll help out in organizing things. --Kitsuno 13:04, 23 November 2006 (PST)

Talk page questions/discussions

I've noticed a few questions/discussions on some of the Bujutsu article talk pages. They should probably be discussed here on this page so we can keep track of everything. These are the links with discussion:

• Talk:Aisu-Kage Ryu
• Talk:Araki Ryu
• Talk:Yagyu Shingan Ryu

"General Articles"

Baian brought up a good point on my Talk Page - how should we go about doing the more "general" articles, like Kenjutsu, Naginata Jutsu, etc. - It isn't a specific Ryu, and would be general like writing about "Samurai", or "Castles", so what is a good way to present it? What sort of information should these articles contain? I was thinking the definition, and then "history" as it pertains to the history of Kenjutsu, etc. People who read the article will want to know what it is, why it came about (if known or applicable), examples to illustrate, Samurai who were known for it, etc.

I am thinking we'd need sub categories like "history", "examples" etc. --Kitsuno 20:32, 24 November 2006 (PST)

Good question. For something like that it would be slightly difficult. The origins of general styles are highly debatable and the basics of it do not extend much beyond: "kenjutsu is the art of using the Japanese sword once it has been drawn from the sheath." Msr.iaidoka 00:03, 25 November 2005 (EST)

You all are well acquainted with how much I hate Wikipedia, but I did a check, and they have a relatively long article on Kenjutsu - I don't like how it is written, but the concept is similar to what I had in mind - what do you all think of that wikipedia article? I think there is a lot of irrelevant info there myself, but I also think we can beat that. --Kitsuno 21:07, 24 November 2006 (PST)

That article could not possibly be any more full of garbage if it tried. I does not even have the most basic difference between kenjutsu and iaijutsu mentioned. I am very certain that we can do better, but it will not be anywhere near as wordy. That article was just garbage with excessive filler. Msr.iaidoka 00:31, 25 November 2006 (EST)

OK, tell me what you think of this. I do not think I could make the article any bigger without compromising quality. Kenjutsu

Looks good to me, all I can think of is that we could add a list of Kenjutsu ryu or something similar. --Kitsuno 22:28, 24 November 2006 (PST)

Doable. Just a matter of cross-referencing. Msr.iaidoka 01:39, 25 November 2006 (EST)

My ignorance could be an asset for the article - I'll read it and ask my N00B questions, and that might give you some ideas on what might be added. --Kitsuno 22:42, 24 November 2006 (PST)

That should work out fine. I have unknowledgeable friends read over my papers as a first proofread to take care of any basic comprehension problems. Msr.iaidoka 02:12, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Yagyu Shingan Ryu

Concerning the founder (Tozawa Obito), I'll check for his name in kanji in my notes tomorrow. As for Takenaga Hayato, he started a branch of Yagyu Shingan, but not the original. There seems to be many Yagyu shingan Ryu group, following different 'history'. Tozawa Obitô is the founder of Shingan Ryû and the teacher of Takahisa Masabito Kanetsugu, who renamed the school as Yagyû Shingan ryû. Should we consider him the founder for the article instead? Baian 18:36, 26 November 2006 (EST)

I got it! It's 所沢帯刀 http://isoroku-s.tripod.com/yagyu_root.htm Obito is wrong reading, it's "Tatewaki". Yes it's not modern reading but the name 帯刀(Tatewaki) was pretty common name in those days. And it seems 羽州帯刀 (Ushu tatewaki) is more common than 所沢帯刀(Tozawa tatewaki).

Search result of Ushu Tatewaki http://www.google.co.jp/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-22,GGLJ:ja&q=%22%e7%be%bd%e5%b7%9e%e5%b8%af%e5%88%80%22

Search result of Tozawa Tatewaki http://www.google.co.jp/search?hl=ja&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-22%2CGGLJ%3Aja&q=%22%E6%89%80%E6%B2%A2%E5%B8%AF%E5%88%80%22&btnG=Google+%E6%A4%9C%E7%B4%A2&lr= --Shikisoku 16:26, 26 November 2006 (PST)

Cool. If it's right(which would seems to be), it's my fault for not reading properly. Need to work on my Japanese seems like. I'll just double check with my friend tomorrow to make sure. He should know and have a good explanation. He knows more than any people I know about the koryu. Baian 20:13, 26/11/06 (EST)

Ok, I got an explanation now. It would seems that both names are mentionned in different texts (same kanji of course, but meant to sounds different depending of context). Obitô was supposely common name in Sendai. So we could keep Tozawa Obitô and add Ushu Tatewaki in parenthesis. Ok like that? Baian 21:10, 27/11/06

Will you cite sources that Obito was common in Sendai? This Yagyu Shingan Ryu site describes "Tatewaki" 「流儀を開いたのは荘内の人・羽州帯刀(うしゅうたてわき)。」http://www.ichigeki.co.jp/o_style/20031105.html　 This one is Sendai's local history site.http://katahira.org/tsusin/5-siba3.htm It describes Harada Kai(Sendai han Karo)'s son was "Tatewaki" 「8)仙台大神宮…茂庭周防（もにわ・すおう）邸跡（志田郡松山一万三千石・妹は原田甲斐の長男・帯刀（たてわき）の妻、騒動後帯刀は切腹、二人の男の子は刺殺、妻と長女は松山に預けられる）【兵部派】」--Shikisoku 20:23, 27 November 2006 (PST)

It seems Yagyu Shingan Ryu is very complicated.

• Sendai-ha Sôke http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~shingan/MyPage/menu0.html
• Edo-ha Sôke http://www.kunpooan.com/arakido.html
• Miyagi prefecture's official site describes Takenaga Hayato was founder.

http://www.pref.miyagi.jp/bunkazai/siteibunkazai/miyagi-no-bunkazai/09Mukei-ken/03jyujyutu.htm I am going to add these informations.--Shikisoku 21:01, 27 November 2006 (PST)

I also need Kanji of Takahisa Masabito Kanetsugu. If your source is Bugei Ryûha Daijiten 1969 Will you scan the page and post on S-A Forum? Thanks--Shikisoku 21:43, 27 November 2006 (PST)

Title of Lineage Chart

I do not know about anybody else, and no offense to the one who put it up there, but I can not stand having masters on the lineage diagrams. It conjurs ideas of people like Ron Duncan. I kind of hate to use the correct Soke, so does any one have suggestions, maybe Heads, or leaders, or maybe even Successors?

Oh and while I am at it, I am planning on adding linrages to some pages, but I do not have my cad software on this computer, what did you, who ever added the lineage charts, use to create them with. If you can wait till the 20 or so of next month I can add them then. Rikoseishin

I'm not sure what was used for this type of image but it can be done with photoshop, the only minor annoyance is that it has to be done manually - draw the lines, get them in the right place, center the text, etc. If you have something that builds it automatically when you type in the names, that is probably easier --Kitsuno 00:19, 28 November 2006 (PST)

I guess I can wait to deal with that later. Like I said I have AutoCAD, in my opinion the best computer assisted drafting software. Anyway I can create anything form the ground up, then I can make a template out of it, and bingo its all down hill. Anyideas about the linegae? Rikoseishin